To mark the launch of our second series of Unique Contributions, YS Chi speaks with one of the most influential Blacks in corporate America, Femi Richards, about race, racism and social justice.
Femi has a courageous conversation about his personal and family experience of racism and what it means to be black in America today. As the co-founder and ex-president of the DC Chapter of the African Ancestry Network at RELX, he shares his thoughts on the efforts that are required to reaffirm the inherent values of black lives and all lives. He calls for everyone to join the conversation.
This podcast is brought to you by RELX.
To mark the launch of our second series of Unique Contributions, YS Chi speaks with one of the most influential Blacks in corporate America, Femi Richards, about race, racism and social justice.
Femi has a courageous conversation about his personal and family experience of racism and what it means to be black in America today. As the co-founder and ex-president of the DC Chapter of the African Ancestry Network at RELX, he shares his thoughts on the efforts that are required to reaffirm the inherent values of black lives and all lives. He calls for everyone to join the conversation.
This podcast is brought to you by RELX.
The unique contributions podcast is brought to you by RELX. Find out more about us by visiting RELX.com.
Femi Richards:My children, they witnessed the election of Barack Obama as the first black president of the United States. But they also witnessed the horrific murder of George Floyd under the knee of a police officer.
YS Chi:Hello and welcome to our second series of unique contributions, a RELX podcast where we bring you closer to some of the most interesting people from around our business. I'm YS Chi and I'll be exploring with my guests some of the big issues that matter to society, how they're making a difference and what brought them to where they are today. My guest today is Femi Richards, who is VP for compliance at RELX, but better known for being voted one of the top 100 most influential blacks in corporate America. Based in Washington DC, Femi is an active campaigner against hate and violence, an influential advocate for a more equal society. Having co founded the washington DC chapter of the African Ancestry network, I'll be asking Femi what more we need to do to support the black, asian and minority ethnic communities and how we at RELX can help create meaningful change. Hello Femi, it's so great to have you join us here today.
Femi Richards:Thank you YS I am very happy to join you. This is my first podcast. So it's very cool for me and, certainly my wife. We think this is amazing. If we were doing a Tik Tok video, my kids would love it even more, but it's fantastic. Thank you.
YS Chi:Well enjoy it. So first, how has everything been for you over in Maryland. I'm sure changing to working from home with your wife, three kids, and I understand you even have pets, that's got to be quite a lot of change.
Femi Richards:Well you know, things are actually quite good. And as I look back over the past 14/15 months of this global pandemic, and all the various lock downs and the restrictions. I think things have kind of gone full circle in my mind. In the very beginning, when the office first closed, I tried to look on the bright side. I mean, there was no commute on the metro for me to DC. There was no need for a fancy wardrobe. And by fancy wardrobe, let's be clear, I'm talking about anything that had buttons, a zipper or a belt. So, those things have been dispensed with. I had more time with the family. I even got a peloton bike so I did more exercise and tried to take my health into greater account. We got a dog which is fantastic. I recommend if you don't have a dog, a dog is definitely a game changer as far as safeguarding your mental health and your outlook. So I really tried to look at the positive during that time.
YS Chi:Well, I think we all have to do that.
Femi Richards:We do, we do. And it wasn't that long though after that period of time of positivity that the schools closed, and my wife and I had to look at each other and realise that we were now in this sort of uncharted territory. We had the challenge of trying to keep our three kids, we have a 16 year old and two 13 year olds. We had to keep them engaged with their studies. We had to establish a daily routine. We had to balance our very demanding jobs in this sort of 'not normal', this new'not normal' scenario. But I think thankfully YS, we're seeing the end of this tunnel with the rollout of the vaccines and the promise of brighter days ahead. And along the way, I have to give RELX a great degree of credit, because I think the company did a fantastic job in creating an environment in which employees do not feel faulted for being parents and for being caregivers. There's been a great degree of empathy and the communications from management to employees. I think this has been very helpful in setting a tone that we're all in this together. So kudos to the company for doing that.
YS Chi:Well, you're kind to say that, but I think that the reason it can happen is because I really feel that at RELX, conversations are in all directions. Right?
Femi Richards:I agree. It's definitely multilateral. And I think employees respond to companies that show that kind of compassion, that kind of understanding. That this is an unprecedented time we find ourselves in. This is not anything that we have experienced in our lifetime. So, I think it requires a great degree of grace from both employees and management to get through this together.
YS Chi:We are going to talk about communication a little later when we talk about AAN. But first, let's talk a little bit more about you. So, your lawyer by education, first studying at UMass Amherst, and then going to UConn for your JD. And then you didn't have enough education so you went to Harvard to get your Master's in Public Policy. But how did that get you over to RELX? How did we get so lucky?
Femi Richards:Well, I think I'm the lucky one. But let me sort of tell you the story. It's kind of a nonlinear route, if you will. So like most young, idealistic law students, I was determined to use my legal education to try to save the world with a focus on civil rights and human rights. But I quickly realised a few things when I was in law school. The first thing is that the legal profession does not typically compensate world savers all that well. They certainly compensate Wall Street transactional lawyers, they compensate commercial litigators. But I didn't really have a passion for that line of work. And not to fault those who do that work. That is important work as well, but just was not my cup of tea at the time. And the second thing I realised, was that many of the problems that I was truly interested in solving, were not entirely legal in nature. So issues of inequality and social disadvantage. These are really institutional problems. These are systemic issues, and they are structural challenges. So if I want to make a difference, and I truly did, I needed to expand the tools in my toolkit. I needed to pursue a degree in my mind, of in public policy, because that's kind of where the rubber hits the road. It's legal in nature, yes, but it's also this public policy dynamic. So I applied to, and was accepted by Harvard University. It was an amazing two years, I met tremendous individuals. They're luminaries like civil rights leader, John Lewis was there who spoke to us many times. I sat in classes with folks who went on to become military leaders and senior government officials. But after graduation, I did what many folks at the Harvard Kennedy School tend to do, they move to DC. And that's where I went. And my first job when I came to the city, was at a newly minted federal agency called the court services and offender supervision agency. It was an agency that was set up to supervise adult probation and paroles in the city of Washington, about 15,000 of them. It was a great job as a recent graduate for two reasons. The first reason is that it's where I met my wife. My wife was also a recent graduate student graduate, and she happened have an office right next to me there. And I think my boss, or our boss at the time, fancied himself to be some sort of amateur matchmaker because he put my office next to hers, and we got married. He put another couple, they weren't a couple then, next to each other. They got married. So two long standing marriages from that one job and that experience. But YS, as I talk about that, or as I reflect on that, that time with the agency trying to work on criminal justice issues. I truly did get burnt out because I did not see any sort of progress in reducing criminal recidivism. And sadly, sadly, many of the folks who were caught up in the system of criminal justice looked like me, they were black men. And it was very, very depressing to see that I could not do enough in my role as a senior policy analyst to change their life, to change their fortunes. And as I dealt with that frustration, I called back to Harvard University to one of my faculty advisors, and I said:"Look, you know, I came with my Harvard education, and my energy and my zest for change. I'm not making the change that I want to see happen." And he said Femi, look, maybe this is a chance. Maybe this is the time for you to step back, and reassess. Maybe you could do something else with your career. There's nothing wrong with making a career change. And he said, you have this law degree that you haven't never practiced law. You have never used your law degree in the traditional sense. And at that point, I said, you know what, maybe that's what I should do. Maybe I should start fresh. So I went to a law firm in Washington, a large law firm, and I entered this new practice area. It was a very cool multi disciplinary practice area that mixed employment law, crisis management, strategic communications, litigation to help large corporations deal with class action discrimination, complaints and lawsuits. It was tremendous work. It was value added work. It was also soul crushing work because the hours. The intensity was unlike anything I had ever experienced. I found myself sleeping at the office. I found myself working on weekends. I found myself cancelling plans with my friends and family. Eventually, I realised I could never make plans because the billable hour is a tremendously unrelenting taskmaster. The only good thing from that period of time was that I met a tremendous mentor at the law firm. Someone who took it upon herself, to mould me, to guide me, and who believed in me. Her name was Carol DiBattiste. She was a recent political appointee of the Clinton administration when I joined.
YS Chi:We know her. You know Carol DiBattiste because she worked here at RELX. She went on to become the chief privacy officer, and the general counsel of ChoicePoint. She recruited me from the law firm, because she knew that there was more that I wanted to do with my life than just do billable hour work. She invited me to come over, I ran over there as fast as I could. That was in 2006. As you know YS, RELX purchased ChoicePoint in 2008. And the rest is history. I've been here ever since and very happy for that opportunity. Right. Yeah, that's an interesting story. But it is always about people, isn't it?
Femi Richards:It always is. I mean, it always is, people. You remember the people more than remember the job.
YS Chi:Right, of course.
Femi Richards:And the people who impact your life, are the ones who you should give credit to as you, as you sort of march away through your career.
YS Chi:Now, somewhere along this period, you were honoured as top 100 most influential blacks in corporate America, and not a small recognition. I understand it was not just about how well you were doing professionally, but it was also how strong a voice you exhibited in your community and society. And now you are an active member of Maryland's Montgomery committee against hate and violence, I understand. So with everything that happened in recent years, and even with the most recent tragedy of George Floyd. How and what are your thoughts about this climate and where we are going? How have things changed, if any, since you were growing up going through college, etc?
Femi Richards:Well, I think first YS. Again, thank you for mentioning that. The recognition in Savoy magazine was a tremendous honour and one that I'm quite proud of. But to be honest, I'm not sure if I'm even the most influential black person in my own house. So being one of the most influential blacks in corporate America may be a stretch because I think the most influential person, certainly in my life is my wife, who is wonderful. You know, any success that I've been able to achieve in my life is a direct result of being raised by terrific parents, who sacrificed a lot for my brothers and for me, so we can maximise our potential. So kudos to my mother and my father, my amazing wife, my three kids, because they are my biggest cheerleaders, and they really helped push me to be the best version of myself that I can be. And it's because of my kids, my children, that I sought a position within the Montgomery county Maryland committee against hate violence. I was very fortunate to be appointed by the county executive and confirmed by the Montgomery County council for this political appointment. It's..I'm actually starting my second three year term on the committee. And the mission of the committee against hate violence is to eradicate acts of hate and intimidation through education, advocacy, collaboration, and legislation. We do a lot of work in the committee every year, we host a friendship picnic which brings together community members to celebrate our diversity with music and food and recreation. In addition, the friendship picnic provides opportunities for small group conversations, to discuss how we can move toward a more non violent community that's based on mutual respect. My children have volunteered each year at the picnic and they found it to be quite rewarding. The committee also administers a partnership fund for the victims of hate crimes to help them, to help compensate them as individuals or as private institutions for property damage and medical expenses. So very important work with the committee. But you mentioned, again I mentioned my children, they are a central theme in my thinking about how I want to impact the world in a positive way. When I think about the world they will inherit. I mean, my children being 16, 13 and 13, they witnessed the election of Barack Obama as the first black president of the United States. But they also witnessed the horrific murder of George Floyd, under the need of a police officer. They can see black lives matter and all lives matter signs as we drive through the streets of our community. You know, I tell my kids stories all the time about my experiences growing up. Now, when I tell them a story, not too long, I told the story about when I was in law school. And I was walking through the law library. And I was told to leave by a security guard, because he said the law school library was only for law students. And I was walking there. I was a law student. But the assumption was, a black man in the law library was so strange, so rare, there was no way I could have been a law student. Now, I can speak from experience, even law students don't want to be in the law school library. So why would I try to sneak into the law school library, it was just a very odd situation. But, you know, it just shows you that negative assumptions are often made because of someone's race. And because of that my wife and I discuss all the time with our children, about how to interact with police officers and law enforcement officials. It's become routinely known as 'the talk' that black parents have with their children. And we constantly remind them that they need to take extra care. If they ever get confronted by a law enforcement official.
YS Chi:I cannot tell you how that comes and hits me, because one of my classmates was an early advocate for this, he just passed away, sadly, but his name is Lawrence Graham. And I would hear stories of how he would have to sit his children down like you did, and have to tell him all these things that they need to do differently because they're black children. It's incredible. He lived in upper Eastside. And, you know, it was just so much of an exception for that community at that time.
Femi Richards:You know, I go as far to say that, if you are a black parent, or your'e any parent who's raising a black child, it is parental malpractice not to have that discussion, because that discussion can actually save their life. Now, I don't want people to think that I'm poisoning my children's minds against law enforcement. To the contrary, I'm actually telling them to even to demonstrate an even greater degree of respect and deference to law enforcement, even if that is not justified, or called for in a given circumstance. Let me give you an example YS of what I'm talking about, in my life and in my kid's life. We live in a majority white neighbourhood, there's maybe three black men in my neighbourhood. Seven years ago, in 2014. My wife and her mother, were on a little mother daughter vacation, they were in Spain. She's out of town. I'm here in the house with my three children at that time, they were ages seven, seven and nine years old. We'd had a very busy day. I took them around to the playground, it's the Saturday afternoon. We had lots of fun, went out and got some food. We came back. As the evening progressed, I put them to bed. And as any sort of great father would do. After my kids were asleep. I opened a bottle of wine, opened the bottle of wine and celebrate the fact that I had survived. You know, almost a full day without my wife and the three kids. I had a glass of wine. I sat down and watched some college basketball on TV because it was around the time of March madness, and I dozed off on the sofa. Around 11 o'clock at night, there was a knock at the door. And it was odd because we have a doorbell, no one knocks at the door. So I kind of just...I thought maybe I was hearing something, maybe it was the air conditioner kicking on or something. So I just, I just kind of stayed in my semi sleep state. It became a pounding at the door. No longer a knock. So I was now jarred awake in my house. I walked down to the front door. I peered through the peephole. Two police officers are standing at the front door. I'm now very wide awake. I opened the door. I say, can I help you? The first thing they say to me. Do you live here? And oftentimes in my house YS, when people come to the door, whether they're selling me windows or lawnmowing services, they always look at me and asked if I live here.
YS Chi:Yeah, yeah.
Femi Richards:I'm not sure if my white neighbours get asked that they live here. I assume that they, the assumptions that they do live here, they answer the door. But they asked me that. I said yes, I do live here. They said that there was a report of a stolen iPhone. And the victim of the stolen iPhone said that her Find My iPhone feature was pinging my house. Now we all know the Find My iPhone features is a very cool feature. It's not the most accurate feature. I know if I do Find My iPhone right now, it will say my phone is pinging from across the street, because it's not that exact. I said there is no stolen iPhone here. Sorry. They said we want to come in. Now. I'm a lawyer, right? I could have tried to use my legal knowledge to my benefit. I could have said well, you don't have a right to come in my house unless I invite you in. Come back with a warrant. You know, there's no exigent circumstances, as the house is not on fire. There's no reason for you to come into my house, but because I had nothing to hide. I said, sure, you can come on in. They both come into my house. I close the door behind them. They say do you have an iPhone? I say yes. I have two iPhones. I have my personal iPhone. And I have my RELX iPhone. I go to get them. I show them the iPhones. I said these are not the iPhones that you're looking for because these are mine. They look at them. They say okay. Do you have children? Maybe they took the iPhone. So now I'm getting very, very suspicious of this conversation. I said, yes, I have three young children. But they're asleep because it's now after 11 o'clock at night. They said, wake them up. I said, I don't think that's appropriate. My kids did not steal an iPhone. My kids, you know, they're so young. Why would you even suggest such a thing. And they raise their voice and they say wake them up right now. So I start walking up the stairs. As I turn back to look, one officer has now moved to block the front door of my house. The other officer is now wandering the first floor of my house apparently looking for the stolen iPhone. I try to wake.. I shake my three children. I said that the police are here. Please get up. They think you stole an iPhone. I know you didn't steal it. They're now crying because they've been jarred so much by the fact that I've called and said the police are here. I've had to raise my voice to wake them up you know...
YS Chi:Sure, they're scared.
Femi Richards:As you know, young children who are in a deep sleep are very difficult to wake up if you ever tried to do that, as we all have. My children are now crying. They come to the top landing of the stairs. They look down to the police officers. I say my children are here. What do you want? What do you want them for? And they asked me a series of questions. Where were you today? You know, did you see an iPhone? Did you pick up my phone? This is the same as the way the CIA would like question a terrorism suspect. I mean no compassion, no understanding of the fact that they're they're traumatising my kids. My kids are now visibly crying. One is falling to his knees. Just shaken by the whole experience. The other officer who's been wandering around my house, goes back to the officer at the front door and says I didn't see anything. I think we should just leave, and they leave. No apology. No, I understand situation. So my kids now, their first interaction with law enforcement has been highly traumatic. The way they view law enforcement for the rest of their life will be coloured by that experience. Now when I tell.. I've told many of my white friends this experience, and what a lot of them have said to me. They have all said this was terrible. This was horrific. But I would have never let them come into my house. I would have never let them talk to my children. I would have never let them wander around unescorted. I said, well, if I had done those things, if I had acted the way you're saying you would have acted. I mean YS, you wouldn't be talking to me right now. I guarantee this would be... you would have been talking about Femi in the past tense. Because we know from the Dante Wrights situation, an agitated police officer can oftentimes take actions that can lead to the loss of life of innocent people. So I tried to be again, the same thing I counsel my kids to do, be deferential. Be respectful, and come back to live another day.
YS Chi:Yeah, I think, that is a really traumatic experience. And for anyone who hasn't gone through that, it is very, very difficult to imagine what an impact it has on one's view going forward.
Femi Richards:Yes, and I think, again it shows you that these stories, you know, and there's many stories that I could have shared, I shared that one, because it's one that comes to mind. You know, these stories show that race, you know, is truly one of the most central organising principles of American life. Race and racism. And I think America has never really come truly to grips with the issue of race, and racial privilege, and structural inequity. And until we do that, we're never going to have this post racial society that we hope for. I think we'll always be dealing with these these challenges.
YS Chi:And let's hope that we have an opportunity to start that again, this time around.
Femi Richards:Well, I think we do have a chance now to, because of the George Floyd murder and the energy and the enthusiasm toward making a difference. I think maybe we are at an inflection point now where we can maybe hopefully, sort of achieve that beloved community that, you know, an America that is great as its promise, but it's going to take a lot of work.
YS Chi:Yes, as you said, with a renewed energy and much, much wider participation, that we have a shot. And let's hope that we do achieve, because of the broad consent, such as you know, all the employees at RELX, that it can be achieved. Now, tough to make a pivot from that story. But I want to pivot to another aspect before we jump to work. And that is, clearly you have been shaped by different people that have had a meaningful impact on you, perhaps their mentors But you too, do that mentoring work. So I'm very interested to hear about what motivates your engagement as a mentor.
Femi Richards:So, I've been blessed with many amazing mentors throughout my career. Too many to name, but I will highlight a few just to give a flavour as to how mentors have shaped my life. First and foremost, I speak about my parents in very glowing terms because they deserve it. My mother grew up in Mississippi during the Jim Crow South, an era of segregation. My father grew up in Sierra Leone, West Africa. They both overcame countless obstacles throughout their lives, but they taught me a lot. A lot about grit and determination. The power of laughter and the importance of service to others. So I credit my parents first as my first mentors. Carol DiBattiste, someone who I mentioned earlier. She was a fantastic mentor, still is. And she stressed the importance of preparation and diligence and attention to detail and execution when you're discharging a personal business affair, so I give her credit as well. Another mentor that has meant a lot to me, was Professor Taeku Lee from Harvard University. He is now a professor of law and political science at Berkeley. And he taught me the importance of not being one dimensional. You know, Professor Lee taught hardcore quantitative analysis classes at Harvard, like econometrics and linear regression modelling, but he also taught seminars on race and ethnic politics, identity and inequality. This is a man who could quote de Tocqueville in one sentence, and then Jay Z in the next. Truly a fascinating individual, who always showed that there's more to the person that what you see on the surface, and I credit him for that, and the importance of being a person of depth. And then I would be remiss if I didn't talk about a couple of mentors I have here at RELX, certainly, people like Ken Thompson who's my manager now and Henry Horbaczewski, wh retired not too long ago, bu both of these individuals wh I've worked for directly emphasise the importance o developing and valuing people So to the extent that I am half decent manager, it' because of people like them wh took the time to teach me abou leadership, and leading people So because I've been s fortunate to have good mentor in my life, I've truly believ in paying it forward. And serve like you YS, I serve as sort of a formal mentor an informal mentor to many people Not as many as you certainl because I know you mento countless people. But one grou that I've been involved with quite recently is the T Howar foundation. And that is a ver innovative group that is focuse on increasing diversity in th media and publishing industry And they work by pairing divers college students with industr professionals. It's bee extremely rewarding. In fact I've been doing it so long no that my original mentees are no mentors themselves. So it i fantastic to see the cycle an it makes me very proud
YS Chi:Besides being RELX's VP of compliance assessment and programmes, you are also very involved with one of our employee resource group, the African Ancestry network in DC. Which I guess you co-founded. We have over 100 ERG's focused on all range of inclusion priorities, like gender, race, ethnicity, age, or sexual orientation, disability and so on. AAN is a particularly active one and I remember turning to you last June, if you remember, when the George Floyd incident happened, and we had to have conversations about it, right? Can you talk a little bit more about why you started it? And what was it like to build up this group? And what has it meant to you and all of the members that are so active?
Femi Richards:Well, I am a huge fan of employee resource groups. I think that ERG's provide a tremendous opportunity for networking with other employees and customers and external groups with common interests and goals. They are a wellspring of creativity and innovation. So in 2012, a group of Washington DC RELX employees got together. And we discussed the prospect of forming a chapter, or what was then called the African American network. The National chapter was and still is, in Dayton, Ohio, but the name has since changed to now the African Ancestry networks. We want to be more inclusive. We approached them, the Dayton chapter and expressed our interest in establishing this local chapter. So leaders from the Dayton AAN like Geoff Collins, and Kermit Lowery, and William Houston and Tracy Bennett. They were so supportive, and they helped us get our group off the ground. Our executive sponsor is Woody Talcove who is the CEO of LNSSI in Washington DC. He's been our biggest supporter from the beginning both financially and also by setting a positive tone at the top that the work of the ERG is valuable to the company, and it means so much to have senior leaders support this work. So, I think it's important to note that while the AAN will continue to push and prod RELX management to enhance its overall diversity, performance and profile. Our focus is as also larger than just just D&I. We also care deeply about advancing anti racism and social justice efforts that reaffirm the inherent value of black lives. So if this perspective resonates with folks, I ask them to consider getting involved with their local AAN chapter. There is no racial litmus test to join the AAN. It is not something that you have to look a certain way or be a certain skin colour. It is truly a welcoming and accepting group of like minded folks who want to advance these issues. Here's the mission of the AAN in a nutshell. We want to drive its successful execution of AAN strategies and tactics in support of the company's business needs and diversity strategy. We want to ensure the ongoing connection to senior company leaders on issues relative to the successful advancement of the AAN vision and mission. And finally, we want to drive information exchange within the company and the broader community. I served as the DC chapter president for about eight years, which was a tremendous honour and privilege. We now have a fantastic new president in Vanessa Morris, who is already working to grow the chapter and breathe new life and energy into our organisation.
YS Chi:Yeah, as you said, it'd be interesting to see how strong ERG's like AAN help foster other ERG's, and then figure out how those different ERG's support each other. Right?
Femi Richards:Right. Well the AAN, in the DC office, the AAN is kind of unique because it is really the only sort of full fledge ERG in the office. There's been some other ERG's that tried to start and, sort of fits and start. The AAN in DC really tries to be all things to all people with a very expansive agenda of programming, we try to bring other groups in to our, into our meetings. So we really are not just focused on sort of the core AAN activities, we really try to be, a one stop shop in our office. And if there is sort of more interest in creating another ERG or other ERG's, we'll certainly try to help because we've done it. We've started from the ground up, we know what works, what doesn't work, and we're happy to be a mentor to another ERG in that capacity.
YS Chi:Yeah. Let's dig a little bit into actual issues. You know, during the pandemic especially, there has been a rise in hate crimes and violence against African Americans, and more recently, a surge against Asians or perhaps, visibility of that surge. Both of these groups have been marginalised throughout history in very different ways and different capacities, and are still in different ways fighting for a sense of equality, fairness of treatment, and the kind of stories you shared with us earlier about stereotype biases. And as I read through the different incidences happening to these groups on a daily basis, I think we got a long road ahead. So, as someone who has been involved for so long. What can you share with us about some ways that you and AAN can try to create some meaningful changes.
Femi Richards:So I agree 100% YS. I think it is safe to say that there's a lot of work left to be done. The racialized hatred of attacks on black Americans, Asian Americans and other people of colour are painful reminders, that we're not living in this post racial world. In fact, it's quite the opposite. And I did see a study out of Cal State San Bernardino, that said that anti Asian hate crimes spiked about 159% in America's largest cities during 2020. Now, much of the blame for this, in my view lies at the feet of many of our political leaders. Who at best were reckless in their rhetoric and at worse, racist in their reaction to the Covid-19 pandemic. And as we look forward to try to make progress in addressing these issues, I think part of it is having some difficult intergroup conversations about race inequality, race and accountability and race and justice. Now, the AAN is doing its part by convening a number of facilitated courageous conversations across the company. Now, some people may ask, why are we having these discussions at work? Aren't these thing that people should be having maybe in community groups, or churches or somewhere else? But why at work? And the sad truth is that if we don't have these experiences, these discussions in the workplace, I fear we're unlikely to have them at all. Because one, they're difficult to have. And, in large part, we lead lives of racial isolation. We tend to live in communities where we are with people who look like us. Oftentimes, our friendships with people who look like us. If we are people of faith we often worship separately along racial lines. Schools are often segregated. I recall a recent guest speaker we had at one of our AAN events, who happened to be a state Supreme Court Justice of a Midwestern state. And he mentioned that he had read a study that 75% of white Americans, for example, do not have a meaningful relationship with a person of African descent, a black person in America. And by meaningful, he wasn't talking about the person you may see in the elevator, riding up to your office in the morning at work, or the parent who you may see at a soccer game whose kid plays in the same team as yours, but you don't remember their name. He was talking about the person that you invite when you're planning a dinner party with your friends, or the couple you invite to your daughter's wedding, or the family you vacation with in the summer. The absence of these close interracial connections create an empathy gap, or a lack of general understanding that leads to a lack of connection and a diminution in the social capital that's truly the building block of our communities. Now, the issue YS around sort of, you know, race hate crimes, that's another issue. And I think what we can do there is to support hate crimes laws in our states. You know, many of our states make it so difficult to prosecute a hate crime. Because up until recently, and I'll take Maryland as an example. In my home state of Maryland, in order to prosecute a hate crime you had to demonstrate that the crime itself was solely, solely motivated by the victim's race. And that is almost impossible to do. The new laws now that recently came out in the book, and thank goodness they did come on the books, says that the race has to be only a substantial part of the motivation behind hate. And that is progress.
YS Chi:That is.
Femi Richards:That will allow us to hold these perpetrators accountable and be able to seek justice for victims.
YS Chi:Yes, to bring it closer to us at RELX. I am still hopeful as you and I agreed 10 minutes ago that this is an occasion in which we can finally make a huge dent in the historic biases that we have tolerated. So what do you think RELX should do more to support BAME communities? Or even more granularly, at the individual level, right? What would you urge those at the senior management level throughout the corporation, throughout the companies and the divisions, to know and to consider so that RELX can advance society towards a better place? Because we want to.
Femi Richards:I think YS, from an individual perspective. These are difficult times for all of us. And I think that a little kindness and compassion can go a long way. So co workers and allies can perhaps take a minute to maybe reach out and connect with employees of colour, and to kind of show that they're trying to understand the issues. And to show that they're supported in the workplace. After the George Floyd murder back in May of last year, I had many employees reach out to me and check in with me and ask if I was doing okay, and saying that they were hurting with me. And that meant a lot. But I also heard from some of my black colleagues who said, they felt more alone than ever because no one no one reached out to them. No one said, I see you, I hear you, I feel you. It was as if nothing had happened and it was business as usual. And it's very hard to go through a challenging time alone.
YS Chi:Absolutely right.
Femi Richards:So the company, I think, as a larger organisation, should continue to be vocal in its opposition to systemic racism. I know the company has made statements and YS, you're a champion of those kinds of statements. Internal and external statements that condemn racial injustice and inequality are important signals. They're signals to current employees. They're also signals to potential employees and they're signals to the larger community that this is a problem and we need to focus on it sincerely. As far as things RELX can do, I think RELX should be willing to maybe do a top to bottom diversity review. Whether you call it an audit or an equity assessment, we should be looking to uncover any clues. Any pockets where there may be discrimination or inequality that's systemic organisational. We should use HR data. Now, I know there may be limits to that use of that data. But you know, to the extent allowed by law, we should be using the data we have at our disposal to see, are there pockets of potential inequality. We should look at our board member representation, senior management representation numbers, employee demographics, exit interviews, employee engagement surveys, promotion practices, pay equity studies should be done. Turnover should be looked at to make sure that we're not losing our employees of colour at a faster rate than their white counterparts. And assessment of those areas are important because we know from the research that a strong D&I performance is a business imperative. That's no longer an issue that is being debated, that I think the business case is well established. But we also know that if we do nothing, or if we make only marginal or just minor tweaks to our programme. We will fail to see the change that we all know is needed. McKinsey came out with a report in February of this year called race in the workplace. They looked at racial demographics of a representative sample of 24 companies. And they found that if the average promotion, attrition and external hiring rates across these companies, and these were representative sample of companies, would remain the same for all races. It will take 95 years for blacks to reach parity. And, you know, I exercise a lot YS, I eat my vegetables, but I'm not going to live 95 years to see this day come to pass. Now, in that same study McKinsey said, if corporations were to use best in class practices around hiring, and promotion, and attrition related issues, they can reduce that to 25 years. Still a long time, but it shows you that we have to be bold. We have to be visionary, we cannot just sort of phone it in, and hope that sort of minor performative tactics will get us the results we're looking for.
YS Chi:Yeah. And I think the key to that report, in the way I read it, was not just a reduction from 95 to 25. It was the continuous continuous improvement every single year toward the ambitious goal of parity.
Femi Richards:Exactly. Exactly right.
YS Chi:Right. It can't be a hockey stick, where you say, well, you know, we're starting off slowly. But by 25 years, we will catch up and we will be there. It has got to be a continual commitment for nonstop improvement that is measurable.
Femi Richards:Exactly. And to that extent, I think that you would agree that we are conducting a top to bottom diversity review. We are a little bit overwhelmed by just how much we have to do. And we're doing them one at a time, two at a time. But you're right, I mean, for us to get down to all of the hidden clues in our system. We do need more data. We do need to be able to gather and be able to access more data as well, despite the privacy issues. And I think that's something we're going to have to work together to overcome from regulations and whatnot. I agree. And I know that the AAN stands ready to help in any way possible.
YS Chi:Yes, I think we're working very well together. I also think that this is a process of tremendous education for us all. And I recall, back in June, July, August, participating in all those conversations, right, that were led by different people through the company and particularly by AAN. I learned so much from just sitting through and hearing even different vocabulary that was being used, right?
Femi Richards:Well, I think this entire process requires us all to be willing to engage in a level of vulnerability, and a level of grace. Because we have to have these discussions. I have to be willing to share my stories. Not everybody has to share the stories, I'm willing to share my stories. People have to be willing to listen to the other side, it has to be a dialogue. And I think if we do that, I think we can truly find some growth in these areas. Part of the problem is we haven't been willing to engage in these kinds of conversations. I've had people actually say to me, some of my white friends who I hold dearly. They say Femi, I didn't really want to ask you those questions because maybe I was afraid of what I would hear from you. I didn't want to know how bad it would be for you. You know, it's tough to know that someone you care about has been through such injustice. And then there's others who assume that because I'm a good person and I'm, I went to a good school, that these things would never even happened to me. So they assumed I was immune to the ravages of racism and inequality, which we know is not the case. You know, you can't out educate yourself away and inoculate yourself from racism. Plenty of good people, plenty of well educated people, plenty of people who had done nothing wrong, are victims of racism in ways that are tragic. It was a scene from the killings of George Floyd and others. So I think these discussions are important for that.
YS Chi:Yeah, I don't think there's anyone with good a heart that does not want to grow, and be a better person each day. And this is an opportunity for us to help those people achieve the growth that they so deserve. I think from the moment you and I first met back in 2015, was it?
Femi Richards:Right.
YS Chi:When we went on a trip together for the cares. I was very blessed to know you, to understand what you stand for. But there is one thing that I don't know what it stands for. Where does the name Femi come from?
Femi Richards:Ah yes, the great secret. So Femi is a West African name. It's actually a Nigerian name. And my mother and father love West African names. And, you know, so the name Femi means love me, in the Yoruba language. My father's middle name is Olufemi, which means God loves me. My brothers are named Adedoyin, which means son or ing of royalty. And Akinshola, my other brother, his name means brave maker of wealth. So obviously, these are not the easiest names to get right on a Starbucks cup. But this it is nice to have names with powerful meanings.
YS Chi:That's why I go by YS and not Youngsuk. You know, I lived in West Africa for four years and I just never came across that name and I was curious. Well, thanks for clarifying that.
Femi Richards:Oh I'm happy to, happy to.
YS Chi:And as always Femi, it's a great pleasure talking to you. Thank you for sharing so many great stories and insights with us, and I'm sure we could have gone on for hours. I think there's a lot for us to think and reflect on. And from the conversation about systematic racism, and what we can do as individuals under this corporate community. I think we need to reflect again, at how we can make the difference, each one of us. Thank you so much for sharing everything Femi. I look forward to meeting your children soon when I'm allowed to go to DC and and see you all.
Femi Richards:Well, the pleasure was mine. Thank you for having me, and thanks for listening to my story.
YS Chi:Well, thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe on your podcast app to get new episodes as soon as they're released. And thank you for listening. Everyone, please remain safe.